Poll: 32 bit vs 64 bit (2008)

[Tiga]

Black Viper trying to start a war 32bit or 64bit. LOL 
OK want something constructive.
First of I have never cared for 64bit instruction sets anyway so to all those that have a 64-bit operating system "You've been had big time"
A little background on 64bit instructions would suggest more security and performance. Neither at time of writing is true.
This memory thing I also hear about is pretty bull too. Vista 32bit can take up to 4gb of memory but it generally doesn't display more than 3.5gb memory. So with 4gb memory you ask what happend to the other .5gb memory ?! Well it is most likely been distributed on your motherboard for resources. There are several sites that would agree with this argument.
Well next maybe cpu, why not, most are 64bit these days and stick on of them into a 64bit operating system and you should be able to fly, right ?
Not right, vista 64 is not any faster than vista 32, if at all vista 32 still performs better the 64bit OS and will less hassle.
Then the memory thingy again, how many of us can afford 4 x 2gb sticks ?! A little expensive for my liking and also what kind of non professional software would eat such large amount of ram. Adobe maybe and some other multimedia software but they are far and between.
I could go on and on but I won't but one last point "driver signing" I HATE IT. Yes it makes the system more secure when a third party company says "give me money for a yearly license and I will test and sign your driver otherwise get lost. No money, no signing" LOL.
I would like to choose what I run on my system and not let someone tell me "Drivers not signed as they didn't pay up" (Nothing to do with compatibility).
Vista 64 is a disgrace. What ever happened to freedom. If I want to use someones software because I like it and I trust them let me sign the driver.
That would be choice, but MS wouldn't make any money from that would they now.
I got to stop as there is still so many other reasons why not to get 64bit until performance, driver signing, compatibility, etc..... gets sorted out. That would be next decade.LOL

 

Tiggs   

[tonster]

No war here....just a few facts.  First I should preface this by saying that I don't own a 64 bit OS and won't for awhile, so I am not biased toward 64 bit. 
1.  32 bit OS can only address 2 gb at a time, which can and will become an issue, particularly in gaming.  I am a gaming nut, and the ability to address more than 2 gb of ram is essential for the future.
2.  4 gb on a 32 bit OS actually degrades performance in some instances.  Because I game, and because of the shear size of the OS, if I got Vista 4 gb would be a minimum, especially considering ram pricing today.  This is the recommended amount of ram for many current games and the requirements to goto 8 gb aren't far away.
3.  I would just about guarantee that SP1 will get rid of the signed drivers issue, however there is a work around found http://www.vistax64.com/drivers/9351-unsigned-drivers.html here.
4.  My autocad program regularly eats up 1 gb, and I don't have drawings that are that complex.  I'm sure that there are other examples of memory hogs (games come to mind). 

I realize these are your personal opinions based upon your computer needs.  I am just reiterating that some of us actually feel the need for a 64 bit OS.  It seems to me that a 2 gb limitation w/o performance penalty is not very practical for some of us in a Vista environment. 

That said, we all have our reasons for liking and disliking certain OS's, so it's cool that you don't like Vista 64.  I am not totally sold either, but my issue is more financial than anything else
Tony

[Tiga]

I agree to some extent with what tonster is saying and maybe I should have made it clear that the operating system 32bit is able to handle 4,294,967,296 bytes (4gb for beginners).
And only half of this can be allocated to a single application.
Still to my point that I still myself as a gamer and a 3d modeler have not came across a situation requiring more than 2gb.
Also for gaming I would advise to get a good GPU with plenty of GDDR and not vista 64.

I hope I have made my point. The world is not ready for 64bit as it stands.
If using it for corporate companies utilizing 3d imaging and 3d software as well as de-encoding software why not but for normal user ?

Tiggs proves a point

[Spawn]

Tiggs proves a point

No, you haven't.

Tigga, BV has already touched on this in another thread between you and I, and I am going to say something now in hopes that either BV will echo it, or at the very least, you will listen.

The boasting of your skill and the cockiness with which you give your opinions are very nauseating...especially since it's opinion; not fact.  You are more than welcome to give your opinion, but this going around to other threads and insisting that what you say is fact (when it isn't) is getting annoying.  I can site several people, websites, and articles...including myself, that disagree with your assertions about 64-bit.  Share knowledge...that's what this place is for, but don't be condescending to people. It's rude, and quite frankly, I am not going to stand for it.

Spawn

[tonster]

Spawn, can you spank me, too???   

Actually I do agree that your tone is a little condescending Tiggs.  It could be that it's not intentional or that you are very confident in your opinions, but I thought I should let you know. 

For me, it is no big deal, because I'm, too am confident in my assertions.  The only thing is, here some people are coming for help and the tone of our responses can be perceived as cocky and arrogant.  We've all met that totally arrogant tech that thinks we know nothing about computers and treats us like we are idiots.  I hate that almost more than anything and stop at nothing to make them look stupid, because they've done that to so many others  

Anyway, just a well meaning comment, one tech to another. 
Sincerely,
Tony

[Spawn]

Spawn, can you spank me, too???   

Actually I do agree that your tone is a little condescending Tiggs.  It could be that it's not intentional or that you are very confident in your opinions, but I thought I should let you know. 

For me, it is no big deal, because I'm, too am confident in my assertions.  The only thing is, here some people are coming for help and the tone of our responses can be perceived as cocky and arrogant.  We've all met that totally arrogant tech that thinks we know nothing about computers and treats us like we are idiots.  I hate that almost more than anything and stop at nothing to make them look stupid, because they've done that to so many others  

Anyway, just a well meaning comment, one tech to another. 
Sincerely,
Tony

That's it right there.  Many people come here for help...many who don't know much at all, and talking to them in that way makes them shy away from asking questions.  We shouldn't want that at all.  Hell, I am ignorant of many things, but I am also a prideful person.  If someone comes off as a smarta** to me when I have asked for help, I am not going to take their advice on anything from that point on.  If you're not here to help and learn, then maybe computer related message boards aren't discussions you should be part of, ya know. 

Spawn

[Myrm]

Regarding the fact that 64-bit allows use of more than 3 GB of RAM for gaming:  Am I correct in thinking that most games (if not all) are restricted to use no more than 2 GB of RAM anyway, even if you had 100 GB RAM installed?

[Spawn]

Tonster or BV may be able to give more verifiable news here, but in my experience with the newer games, this isn't necessariy true.  I have a very high speed system, and my brother has one that he just got...so it's a tad more advanced.  (He got it from Falcon Northwest too).  We played Crysis on it.  Now, he has a Quad-core processor like mine, but his system has two better graphics cards than mine, and running at max resolution with 6 GB of memory (he replaced the 1st 1GB stick with a 2GB stick), Crysis was maxing out both video cards and 3Gb of memory!  And this was in addition to what Vista was already requiring memory wise.  So, I don't know if there is another explanation or not, but using more than 2GB of memory with this game is quite easy.  Oh, and this of course is running Vista.

Spawn

[tonster]

Myrm:
In a 32 bit operating system you are correct.  Only 2 gb of ram is addressable by any one program.  In a 64 bit operating system, this is not true.  I don't know exactly how much a 64 bit operating system can address at once, but it is more than 2 gb. 
Tony

[Myrm]

Myrm:
In a 32 bit operating system you are correct.  Only 2 gb of ram is addressable by any one program.  In a 64 bit operating system, this is not true.  I don't know exactly how much a 64 bit operating system can address at once, but it is more than 2 gb. 
Tony

Thanks for correcting me there 

Regarding the usage of RAM in Vista 64-bit; I think I read somewhere that the different versions of Vista 64-bit allow different maximum amounts of RAM to be recognised by the OS.  I believe Home Premium is about 8GB RAM, though I may be wrong here also 

[tonster]

Just did a quick search and you can find the info you want here:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx


The long and short of it is that Vista 64 can address 128 gb of ram.  I believe, and I could be wrong here, but I think that you can address a 128 gb program!  Woah.  They will probably come up with tricks to double, but only 128 gb per program
Tony

[Black Viper]

I am in agreement with Spawn and Tonster.
People come here for help, not to be attacked for their knowledge or experience. If, Tiga, you actually feel your post was "constructive", I would have to disagree. Opinion, yes.

64 bit OS's and/or computers are nothing new. They have been around a long time. As in 1960 or 70's (memory escapes me and I do not feel like searching for it) for large computer systems and early 1990's for workstations/servers. Intel released a 64 bit processor sometime around 2001 IIRC.

As for Vista, I am a firm believer in feeling that M$ should have made Vista only 64 bit. Why? Because it would force the industry forward. How long did M$ cling to DOS/16 bit compatibility? I shudder at the thought. Want backward compatibility? Then don't buy a new computer.

Yeah, yeah, I know... a lot more to discuss my reasoning for the above statement (and the reason they didn't are too numerous to type), but time is short and I do not feel like boring everyone.

As for Crysis, the "recommended" (no, not min) memory is 2GB:
http://eastore.ea.com/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayPage&Env=BASE&Locale=en_US&SiteID=ea&id=ProductDetailsPage&productID=77033800

Of which, I have a hard time believing as my experience with the Demo, 2GB would not be enough.

Hellgate London uses 1.5GB on it's own without blinking (which may be fixed in a future patch), so, couple that with Vista using 500MB to 1GB, obviously, 2GB is not enough.

4GB, though, for Vista is the current "sweet spot" (for performance and cost considerations) and for years I recommended at least 1GB for XP (even though the minimum "required" is only 64MB) and, now, that recommendation needs to be upped to at least 2GB due to recent gaming.

Do you need Vista 64 bit with 4GB of memory to check email and surf the net? Even though those salesman guys at Best Buy and Circuit City would like for you to believe that... the answer is no.

Edit: Typo

[Tiga]

This is just to funny. (Kill the cat campaign "tiggs")

First off, I would like to apologies for my cockiness on my part and the way I word my opinions and facts.
But not being native english i have problem construction sentences in a manner appropriate.
Ich spreche deutsch und wohne in schotland. Mein englisch is nicht so gut "schuldigung".
It is hard enough for me to just write a sentence in english without having my grammar checked by girlfriend (if that isn't embarrassing enough!!!).
I would like to suggest that knowing and not knowing is the difference between heaven earth and judging people on characteristics based on the way they word sentences is wrong.
Someone trips, falls and hurts them selfs, I would be the first helping them and not knocking them to the ground.
Someone needs help I try to advise to the best of my ability not always having checked facts but speaking from experience in testing, development and commercial use of software and hardware.
For instance and hoping not to be to cocky regarding the forums thread is 32bit vs 64bit processing.
The fact is that Microsoft is far outselling 32bit operating systems than it is 64bit (64bit created in 60s). We will all have to wait a while for 64bit to catch on.
The market would suggest that 32bit OS will be around for some time to come (Google the market if these facts are in question) . I myself would like  64bit to catch on due to obvious factors. What I have trouble myself understanding is the need for 16 exabytes of memory. I do understand that some software and hardware might be able to address more than the 2gb ceiling per process in 32bit but generally only a very small amount of these is actually used by the general puplic.
Isn't this the reason that MS introduced both 32 and 64bit vista ?!
Another thing that hits me is that other factors comparing these bit systems generally are not discussed.
It is not only the memory in 64bit that should be in question.

Anyways, only trying to help and give a little ? to this debate.
One more thing to viper would be to desolve my registration if he himself or others feel intimidated by my comments.
(Nothing like kicking a guy in the teeth when all he wants is to help)


 

[grandpa]

Tiga:
Would you say that the statement:

I refuse paying for this and that and so on.
Ya, great guys. Very helpful comments, I applaud you all.

in the thread about Avast is due to your non-native English language?

grandpa

[Cher]

Reading words that someone has typed is SO impersonal.  Expression of words is in the tone of voice and facial expressions.

It is difficult to express feelings via words (unless you are a professional writer/author.)

So tell us, (I am nosy) what country are you from?  I just think it is absolutely fascinating of the folks on here from around the world.  I have tried to convince BV to get a world map, put it on the wall and put in push pins representing the members country and/or state.  He thought I was weird. 

And what is wrong with the girlfriend correcting your grammer??? I think it is cute and afterall you are spending time together.  Time goes by sooooo much quicker these days....

Cher