Manual vs Automatic services

[occam]

Hi

I have been tweaking the services according to BVs guidelines for XP SP3 setup, here:
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm

I have noticed that some of the 'Manual' services are always 'started' - even after a fresh re-boot.
(I have noticed this regarding 'Terminal Services', 'Telephony', 'Remote Acess connection Manager' and some others...)

Question: Is it not faster to make these services 'Automatic' (instead of 'Manual' as suggested), given that they are being started anyway? (I suspect, for example, that Skype is setting off 'Telephony' soon after boot up.)

Does it not save time having these started automatically, rather than through some internal request?

Thanks for any pointers

occam

[couttsj]

The only difference between manual and automatic is that in the case of automatic the operating system itself starts the service after boot up, whereas in the case of manual the service is only started when called upon by another service or program. If you have no need of the service at all, you have to disable it. Telephony seems to be one of those services that always wants to start up even when you seemingly have nothing that uses it, and the system would always complain if you disabled it. They seem to have fixed that problem in Vista, and they may have fixed it XP/SP3.

J.A. Coutts

[occam]

The only difference between manual and automatic is that in the case of automatic the operating system itself starts the service after boot up, whereas in the case of manual the service is only started when called upon by another service or program. If you have no need of the service at all, you have to disable it. Telephony seems to be one of those services that always wants to start up even when you seemingly have nothing that uses it, and the system would always complain if you disabled it. They seem to have fixed that problem in Vista, and they may have fixed it XP/SP3.

Hi

Thanks for that answer. However, it does not answer my question - which is, is it quicker to have a service started automatically rather than leaving it on 'manual', knowing full well it will be started anyway?

regards
occam

[couttsj]

Hi

Thanks for that answer. However, it does not answer my question - which is, is it quicker to have a service started automatically rather than leaving it on 'manual', knowing full well it will be started anyway?

regards
occam

It makes no difference. It takes the same amount of resources. I forgot to mention that Vista has added a fourth start option (automatic-delayed). This option solves some timing issues with a few services, but still takes the same amount of resources.

J.A. Coutts

J.A. Coutts

[Josh780]

is it quicker to have a service started automatically rather than leaving it on 'manual', knowing full well it will be started anyway?

It would depend on when the service is starting up. In your case, it's starting up on system boot with either setting, so there shouldn't be a difference of one setting being quicker than the other. I'd go with BV's safe settings for the services.

Automatic settings may start a service on boot whether it's needed or not, increasing boot time and using up memory. Manual settings are meant to start the service when it's actually needed, therefore it can reduce boot time and save memory being used.

If a service is already running that's needed for a program you start, the program doesn't have to wait for the service to start before it loads.

With the speed of computers today, you may not notice much of a difference time wise, if any. Memory usage is a different story. If the service isn't needed when you boot up, but possibly later, set it to Manual to save memory. Please note that there are some services that won't start even when needed if set to Manual.

[Jax]

....They seem to have fixed that problem in Vista, and they may have fixed it XP/SP3.

J.A. Coutts

It's still in xp/sp3.

Is there a way to find what program is starting the manual service?  I have several manual services that start at boot for no apparent reason.

tks.

[Josh780]

I don't think there's an easy way to find out what services a particular program uses, unless for example, the program's manual states it. Another option is to check to see what services, if any, start when you open a program.

One thing that you can check is dependencies. It'll list what "system components" (services) rely on that service to work and what services are needed for said service to work also.

[couttsj]

It's still in xp/sp3.

Is there a way to find what program is starting the manual service?  I have several manual services that start at boot for no apparent reason.

tks.

As Josh said, for services you can check the dependency section. For TAPI (Telephony) for example, it lists Remote Access Auto Connection Manager and Remote Access Connection Manager as dependent services. Since RasMan is one of the services you said starts in manual, I suspect that is what starts TAPI. What starts RasMan? The service description says "Manages dial-up and virtual private network (VPN) connections from this computer to the Internet or other remote networks". If you don't use any of these, why not disable all three functions? Terminal services is used by Remote Desktop, and you may have an active connection. Again, why not disable it until you need it?

For programs, you will have to use a third party tool.

J.A. Coutts

[occam]

Please note that there are some services that won't start even when needed if set to Manual.

Interesting final sentence. I have noticed that 'Help and Support' function will not start on first request (when set to 'manual') , requiring a second request. I was of the understanding that 'manual' setting was a safe bet, as the system "can alsways start the service when required"

Where can I find the list of services which won't start when set to 'manual'?

Thanks
occam

[IH8U]

Where can I find the list of services which won't start when set to 'manual'?

You can't, there isn't one.

Setting services to Automatic tells Windows to start that service when Windows starts.
Setting services to Disabled tells Windows that the service is not allowed to start at all for any reason.
Setting services to Manual tells Windows not to start when Windows starts but it's ok to start when needed.

Now when you start your computer there may be other programs or services starting that look for a certain service to be running for it to function properly and if that service is not running it will attempt to start it. An example would be the Help and Support service. Many OEM computer manufacturers tie some of their support tools, which start with Windows, to Help and Support. Setting Help and Support to manual still allows the OEM support tool to start the service because it depends on it to function properly.

As said before you can check the dependencies of each service and try to determine what they are used for and if they are needed or not. Then if you feel you don't need a service try disabling it and use your computer for awhile and make sure everything works ok. It's an experimental process that you'll have to invest some time into.

 

[Black Viper]

Where can I find the list of services which won't start when set to 'manual'?

That is very difficult for me to come up with as, depending on the system hardware/software installed, the services could vary quite a bit.
For the most part, few services actually start up when required if set to manual mode.
You also cannot just put "everything" into manual and have things work properly. If you find you need a service, Automatic is the best way to go.

[occam]

You also cannot just put "everything" into manual and have things work properly. If you find you need a service, Automatic is the best way to go.

OK, many thanks.  This definitely changes my approach to settings. I take away from this exchange that
"if in doubt about a service, Manual setting is not always the best option"

[Josh780]

"if in doubt about a service, Manual setting is not always the best option"

If in doubt about a setting for a service, the best option is either the default setting or BV's recommended safe setting.

If you're comfortable with it, try different settings for services. If you're going to experiment, have a .reg file of your current working service configuration on standby...then if you're not sure what change was no good, just merge the .reg file and restart. Don't ever change 'Remote Procedure Call (RPC)'. If you're fully updated, you shouldn't be able to change it anyway....Mine's greyed out now -Was that you SP3? Good job!-

Experiment only if you want to, it's not mandatory. Experimenting can be fun, exciting, and rewarding, but please do some research and make a backup before hand. For the most part, the worst that will happen is you'll have to reinstall everything. It's not the end of the world, but time consuming....Proper research and backups will help prevent this.

(disclaimer - previous statement only applies to software related experimenting...messing with hardware is a totally different animal)